Senator Grimes, after an interview this A.M. on naval matters, got on to the subject of our public affairs generally, and particularly the differences between the President and the party in Congress. He disclaims Stevens and Sumner, and spoke of each in severe and denunciatory terms, the former as a pretty unscrupulous old fellow, unfit to lead any party, Sumner as a cold-blooded, selfish, dangerous man. When I spoke of him as honest but theoretical and yet, I believe, truthful, Grimes was disinclined to award him these traits, and I perceive has a strong prejudice—perhaps I should better define it by saying hate of the Massachusetts Senator, who, though a student learned in books, Grimes asserts is not a statesman or wise legislator.
With very respectable talents, Grimes is of a suspicious and somewhat jealous nature, inclining to be misanthropic. He must be classed as of the Radical school, but recognizes no Radical leader, has no respect for them; abhors Stevens as a debauchee in morals and politics. He is intimate with Fessenden, who is dyspeptic and has similar traits, and the two hunt in couples. They were both former admirers of Seward, but now and for some time past they dislike him, think his influence on Johnson pernicious.
When I saw during the fall that the extremists were gathering up their strength against the President, it was a question with me how these two Senators would go. Their natural tendency would, I knew, incline them to the opposition. They are both intense on the negro. But neither of them liked Sumner or Stevens, who were in the extreme advance. The President was originally of a different school of politics, and there is not, therefore, that intimacy between them which begets zeal, but during the War they have been bound by a common interest. They had no personal opposition to the President and, I think, no feeling against him except that which minds like theirs would have against the elevation above them of an old associate Senator whom they had regarded as an equal rather than a superior. Though differing with him in fundamental principles of our government, they respected his honesty.
Grimes says he came here at the commencement of the present session kindly disposed to the President and not very hostile to his policy. But he soon found that certain obnoxious Democrats had free access to the White House, and that pardoned Rebels hung around there. He was not satisfied with this state of things, and spoke of it, and was asked why he and others remained away. Soon after he was invited to breakfast with the President, and spent two hours with him discussing all subjects in full and most satisfactorily. Allusion was made to Fessenden, and he expressed a wish that the two should come together and interchange opinions. The President requested him to speak to Fessenden and invite an interview. As the next day was Sunday, Grimes inquired if it would be agreeable for the President to see him on the Sabbath. The President assented, and F. spent several hours most satisfactorily at the White House and went over general measures now prominent.
On the following day appeared the celebrated letter of "a conversation of the President with a distinguished Senator." Grimes says on reading it he asked Fessenden if that was his conversation. F. after reading the letter said he had had no such conversation, and they soon ascertained that Dixon was the Senator. The two, finding that they were not the only confidants of the President, thereupon left him, and allied themselves to the Radicals. They had ascertained that the President conversed freely with others, was not likely to commit himself to their keeping exclusively, and therefore should have their opposition or at all events could not rely on their support.
I inquired of Grimes what there was offensive in the letter, or the President's policy, or wherein he was inconsistent; said that doubtless many, who, like him and Fessenden, had peculiar views of their own, had called on the President and he had frankly conversed with each of them, notwithstanding their different shades of opinion, and each, perhaps, had construed the friendly courtesy and kindly greeting as favoring his tenet, while the aim had been to commit himself to none, but to be friendly and conciliatory with all.
I asked Grimes where all this was to end; what we were to expect when Members of Congress made it a point to disagree, organized a joint committee of the two houses to get round constitutional difficulty, which committee was to establish a policy for Congress and the country, arrogated to itself and stimulated Congress to arrogate or usurp executive powers, were passing declaratory resolutions which had no force, but were designed to irritate and be offensive, with other extraordinary proceedings. I told him the country had a present and a future before it, and its fate was to some extent in the hands of men in responsible positions and for which they were accountable. The country, I said, appeared to me to be in peril; that we must either reunite or diverge still farther soon. We cannot remain inactive, must either advance or recede.
I could perceive he was disturbed, but soon remarked that the Southern people were a damned set of traitors, as bad now as at any time during the Rebellion, and he had no confidence in them.
I admitted they were bad, malignant, foolish to a great extent, but asked when they would be better, and if no better, were we to be forever a disunited country. Their indebtedness in various forms under their sham organization could not be less than twenty-five hundred millions; the property in slaves which was extinguished by emancipation could not be less than twenty-five hundred millions more; other individual losses were immense. To all this they were compelled to submit, and besides this they were to pay their proportion of our debt incurred in whipping them. Now was it strange that they were sore and complaining, and were we doing right in excluding them from all participation in the government, to which they were entitled under the Constitution? We must adopt conciliatory measures or national calamities would soon be upon us, and we ought not to shut our eyes to the facts.
He admitted something must be done, but said that he had confidence that all would come right. He guessed we were nearer now than some apprehended. This he said with a smile and manner that impressed me as coming from one who thinks he and his associates have the reins in their hands and intend to guide the government car safely. But the subject should not be trifled with.
McCulloch inquired of Stanton if he had reached a solution of the difficulty in regard to the oath. Stanton replied that he had given it considerable thought and come to the conclusion that it would be best for McCulloch to prepare a letter setting forth the difficulties of the case. This letter, I remarked, had better be addressed to the President. Stanton did not respond favorably to this suggestion. He thought it would do as well to send it to one of the committee. This was also Harlan's view. Dennison took very decided ground with me.
The rumors that the Fenians had seized Navy Island and that ten thousand volunteers had been called out by the Canadian authorities were current this morning. Seward was unwell and not at the Cabinet-meeting. The British and Canadian Governments were each much excited. The last arrival brings information that the habeas corpus is suspended in Ireland and the propriety of some governmental action here was discussed.
Stanton thought a proclamation should be issued and decisive measures taken, as was done by Van Buren in his day. Regretted Seward was not present, for we knew not what appeals had been made by the British Government. The propriety of taking some action was generally concurred in, and Stanton rather pressed it. I proposed that General Grant should be consulted, sent to the frontiers, and perhaps it would be well to address a communication on the subject which would form the basis of government action. Stanton could see no necessity for bringing Grant out; a proclamation from the President to put down these Fenian organizations was what was required. I assented, but stated that the occasion and condition of the country and of our public affairs were such that I thought it would be wise to have the public authorities fully heard, and all of them. The Irish element, I stated, was a strong one and clannish, and if a movement against an organization of theirs was to be made, I wished to see others besides the President moving, and especially did I desire, under existing circumstances, when the militia might be called to act, that General Grant should be consulted. Harlan thought a circular from the Attorney-General exhorting vigilance on the part of attorneys and marshals would be sufficient; the circular could be got into print. While I did not object to that process, I expressed my conviction that it would be wise to have General Grant identified with the Administration in these movements. Dennison and McCulloch concurred with me.
After the others left, the President expressed his satisfaction with the direction I had indicated and the bearing it seemed to have on others.
SOURCE: Gideon Welles, Diary of Gideon Welles, Secretary of the Navy Under Lincoln and Johnson, Vol. 2: April 1, 1864 — December 31, 1866, p. 447-51
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